Curse

DieInBasra · Jul 27, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Now premadeway won't suck.

Thom · Jul 27, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Basically anyone can now enter top level pvp without ever PvEing. Every major build outside of a good hammer build is represented.

I would argue that there aren't any good training wheel builds. No straight forward damage characters other than warriors (which reflects high end pvp, but isn't necessarily good for the game) and no simple monks. A boon prot is important to learn, but I wouldn't want to put a complete noob on that type of a build. Similar complaint with the Blessed light monk: nice gvg build, but a new player would be better served with a WoH training wheel build.

That said, they captured the balanced meta game fairly well in the builds selected. You can now GvG efficiently with premades, only missing a water guy.

DieInBasra · Jul 27, 2006, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Yeah, I think giving both warrior frenzy for people who will probably be playing more RA then anything is lame. The tainted is an odd choice, again considering most people are playing in arenas. The cripshot without his runes is going to have trouble as well, imo.

JR · Jul 28, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

The premades are not just for RA.

tomcruisejr · Jul 28, 2006, 01:21 AM // 01:21

quality premades at last

Lord Dark Genie · Jul 28, 2006, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

Basically anyone can now enter top level pvp without ever PvEing. Every major build outside of a good hammer build is represented.

I would argue that there aren't any good training wheel builds. No straight forward damage characters other than warriors (which reflects high end pvp, but isn't necessarily good for the game) and no simple monks. A boon prot is important to learn, but I wouldn't want to put a complete noob on that type of a build. Similar complaint with the Blessed light monk: nice gvg build, but a new player would be better served with a WoH training wheel build.

That said, they captured the balanced meta game fairly well in the builds selected. You can now GvG efficiently with premades, only missing a water guy.

Boon prot is really easy to learn. I'd argue that learning to monk with a boon prot is easier than with a straight healer. Healers tend to get pwnd by almost everything in RA.

What kind of straight damage character other than warrior do you want ? I can't think of something more straightforward than c-space to do damage

*lemming* · Jul 28, 2006, 02:01 AM // 02:01

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...4&postcount=49

Is that a typo in the description?

Patrograd · Jul 28, 2006, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Yeah, really nice premades. Good job EW and well done Anet

CoRrRan · Jul 28, 2006, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Damn, they left out the "JR-"-part on the Blessed Light Monk...

JR · Jul 28, 2006, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoRrRan

Damn, they left out the "JR-"-part on the Blessed Light Monk...

I know.

[EW]Elendar · Jul 28, 2006, 03:01 PM // 15:01

We put it in but Anet removed it
le sorrys

Thom · Jul 28, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

I guess the monk versions are a bit more user friendly than those I normally play, but a WoH monk can play well in 8v8 format and is a nice introduction since energy management is straightforward.

New players like to play simple DPS builds in whatever class they fancy. A damage ranger is more "noob-friendly" than a cripper. A reasonable trapper is also a fun build to learn battle awareness while dealing damage. An IW mesmer is completely reasonable for a fun DPS premade. Tainted isn't the best introduction to necro damage; blood builds are much simpler introductions to necro damage.

If you want to get players into PvP, you want to provide some builds which are initially attractive and easy to learn as well as optimized builds. I'm happy to be rid of several builds which were on the old list, but currently we have a list of "Spike" premades with nothing for Timmy and little for Johnny. This isn't going to help the longterm health of PvP. We must remember that the journey is as important as the destination and creating a list of near optimized builds kind of kills the journey. Adding a set of competitive, non-annoying builds which aren't meta-game optimized is a good thing.

Loch · Jul 28, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Should the premades even be about Timmy and Johnny? Timmy by definition doesn't have a clue about what actually works, and Johnny typically gets his kicks by figuring stuff out on his own in the first place. The old premades looked like they were designed by a Johnny who's new to the game, but they didn't help players actually learn the game. Our only option left is to lean the player towards Spike.

EW basically made premades based on what the professions generally excel at in PvP, which is why you don't see pure damage rangers or fire eles, for example - instead, you see a cripshotter and a prodigy-powered utility ele. These builds aren't about flat-out damage, but I'm sure they'd teach a new player something useful about the game anyway. These builds definitely require skill from the player in order to get results, but I'm sure the player would improve if there was a benefit to getting good with the build.

I mean, I wouldn't want to give players scrub premades just because they're simple to understand.

Ghull Ka · Jul 28, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

I disagree, the premades are pretty weak. People who GvG don't use premades. People who RA do. Now here we have a bunch of premades, taylored for GvG (except the boonprot, I suppose) and all of the old ones are gone. What's more, they're the same cookie cutter standard fare that we've been seeing for MONTHS.

Not all of them have self heals. Wasn't that a requirement of EW's little contest? Isn't that somewhat necessary in RA, where premades are mainly used? Again, people who GvG have zero use for premades. People who just bought the game, and need to go grind some faction are the people who need to use premades, and most of them aren't in an 8-person GvG guild.

The worst part: "Designed by Esoteric Warriors?" I don't think so. "Submitted by Esoteric Warriors" would have been more appropriate. EW didn't design any of these. I would have loved to have seen new, inventive, interesting, builds that were all original designs from one of the top guilds in the game and could be fielded in RA and TA. Not just the same cookie cutter drek that high-level has GvG used for months.

Thumbs down. Bring back the old ones.

KitsunE81 · Jul 28, 2006, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote: